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Thread: [Q&A] Natural Strength and Mass Training

  1. #1

    [Q&A] Natural Strength and Mass Training

    Hi and welcome to our newest Q&A dedicated solely to natural training!


    In this thread I will be personally giving answers to questions related to:

    -natural training as a whole
    -mechanics of exercises
    -proper technic
    -functionality
    -progression
    -training methods
    -various periodizations
    -goals
    -troubleshooting
    -mass, strength, explosiveness, endurance


    Rules are simple:

    -Ask short 2-5 lines long question. One post = One question. Got more questions? Post more posts.

    -Don’t ask about diet, personal things and do not spam. This Q and A is solely for training.

    -No chatting between questioners. Wanna chat? – create separate thread – it is simple as that.

    -No pleasing for routine creation. Wanna routine? – Create separate thread- it is simple as that.

    -Use metric system, not imperial. There are 1001 free internet transition charts – use them.

    -English is my second language. Keep that in mind. I’m trying to do my best, but don’t be mad at me if I will make any grammar/spelling mistake – I’m only a human.

    -Post a country of your origin. Sometimes it is very helpful [different health care, sport organization, habits, national diets etc].



    So here we go. Our Q&A for Polish readers is the biggest post on our board and the biggest Q&A for Naturals in the whole web. Let’s beat it : )
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  2. #2
    Junior Member Critter is on a good road Critter's Avatar
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    Hi, can I be first?

    What is the difference between dead lift and good morning exercises?
    The load is on upper back in good morning and on shoulders (and this way on upper back) in dead lift...
    Is it effectively the same kind of load?

  3. #3
    At first we must state that there are various types of deadlifts and good-mornings.
    Basically deadlift is the main compound exercise. It is a great strength and health benchmark. Among Squat/Dips/Chins the Deadlift is a great tool of addressing someone postural problems. You can’t deadlift with proper technic when your posture is bad. Simply – try to deadlift, see what happens and then go to your doc.

    If you can’t do Deads - there is where good-mornings comes in to play. They are one of the best support exercises for DL. By limiting rom, and changing leverage someone with bad posture can still work his back and hams while rehabbing his posture in the background. After good rehabilitation you can then switch to deads if problem is solved.

    So the main differences are:

    Basic deadlift – heavy loading, from floor to hips [deadstart], multi-joint basic exercise, leverage ideal for heavy work

    Basic good-morning – middle to low loading, from top to desired range, compound/limited joint support exercise, leverage too critical for all-out work

    But that’s looks too simply, right?

    The bigger picture is:

    For powerlifters and bodybuilders the deadlift is the ultimate basic exercise. Everything that a powerlifter do is trying to make his DL better [besides squat and bench press]. He adds lots of support stuff like GM for example.

    But for Olympic lifters and strongmen – Deads are only a support tool for their main goal – for example OLY-men are using specific DL type to support progress in their Snatch. Keep in mind – they are using proper specific version for their goal – not to lift as heavy as they can.

    Simply saying – bodybuilders DL got 10% of hip drive found in Olympic support deadlifting. They do differ because the goal is different. One is working purely on his muscles, the other on the specific force generation and strength vectors.
    There are over 20 different types of deadlifts. The same number or even more is for good-mornings.

    We have got more gluteus oriented GM, deadlift support oriented GM, back squat support oriented GM, and various bodybuilding GM emphasizing different muscles [via angle, knee bent, hip drive, rom, stance etc.]

    To summarize thing for average Joe. If you can deadlift – always deadlift – it is one of the best strength and mass building tools. But if you can’t – start rehabbing yourself and in a meantime do your GM [cooperating with your doc]. Proper Hip work IS A MUST for every sport and amateur discipline. Sadly, most people omit this – but still – this is the thing that differ wannabes from champions.

    If you lift for strength – do your DL and add GM if you need them in fighting yours sticking point.
    If you lift for mass – do your DL and add GM if you need additional gluteus work or back isometric work.

    Just keep in mind – there are various DL and GM. If you want support one with other – you must choose correct versions [and your body must handle both of them].

    I can go more in the detail, but first you must specify which versions you want to compare.
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  4. #4
    Is really good morning more secure for lower back than DL ? I 'm not sure about this long lever between load and feet, +straight knees, hm...

    Is there some trick to relieve lower back at GM ?

    regards

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by zbig2 View Post
    Is really good morning more secure for lower back than DL ? I 'm not sure about this long lever between load and feet, +straight knees, hm...

    Is there some trick to relieve lower back at GM ?

    regards
    That is a good question!
    As I stated in the post above, there are various GM variations. For people seeking strengthening the endurance strength of lower back [and enhance spine stabilization] some types of Good Mornings will be a blessing, while some will wreck theirs backs.

    The most common performance:

    -Barbell placed on the top of traps
    -Stiff legs with locked knees
    -Great hip bend
    -Full ROM from upright to parallel

    Is not for people who got any kind of lower back/hips/forward head posture problems. This variation is pure isolation, working directly on the body parts which are unable to properly execute the motion. Leverage is to sharp, thus creating extremely big forces directly on the spine.

    The “safe” GM should be performed in such fashion:

    -Wider stance [good place to start is a squat stance]
    -Barbell placed significantly lower to reduce leverage
    -Knees bent
    -Hips bent
    -Movement should be performed via Hip Hinge, hamstrings action should dictate the change of the knees angle
    -ROM must be limited to the range where practitioner is able to control the load and maintain anatomical spinal arch

    In practice – at the very beginning such GMs will be very short movements. In time, when strength endurance will grow, ROM will be naturally prolonged.
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  6. #6
    Thanks for thorough explanation.

    "Safe" version makes sense for me as I have lower back issue.

    regards

  7. #7

    "Safe" goodmorning testimonial

    After 7 days of herniated disc recovery I dared to make 1 set of 5 "empty" squats and 1 set of 5 safe goodmornings as Puma described above, no bar, only light stick.

    Each rep waiting for shot in back....

    nothing happened.

    Great !

  8. #8
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